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Honest Opinions & Feedback 1.4 oRvR Pack

Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
  • GW2: Foghladha.2506
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Posted On: 10/23/2010 at 11:40 AM
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Ok Guys, I want some honest opinions here. No judging people or responses to other peoples post. I need honest opinions so I can forward them only Mythic. Please post your thoughts on the new system and I will try to compile them into one post and send it over to their development team. I want what you like, dislike, are excited and worried about as well as how much you are looking forward to the new patch.

Thanks

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Ridire de na Ulchabhan Donn
Minganodin
Ridire de na Ulchabhan Donn
Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 12:09 PM PDT
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I honestly do not like the new RVR system, while yes it accomplishes the goal of breaking up the zerg, it makes makes organization all but impossible. The skaven seem like a cheesy gimmick which will only accomplish in draining players from both sides that should be out fighting. I find the fundamental flaw in warhammer as a whole is hard to explain. In almost all MMOs the endgame is reserved for the max level, the elite, the top dogs, but in war endgame is available to a much wider range of levels, T4 can be done at r28-rr80. The difference from a lvl 28 player and a RR80 player in the field is minimized to keep it fair, but there IS still a difference. In the end, gear and rank doesn't matter, its how well you play together that matters. The game seems to highly promote alting more then anything else, which I find frustrating when trying to get to RR80, and for that I havn't gotten a single character past RR 51. The only thing that matters is killing the enemy, and if I can't do that for any reason, I'm not having fun and I don't want to play. I'm worried that this whole RVR packs for money deal is just a last ditch effort for EA to get some money out of Warhammer before they drop it.

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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
Stoat
Caomhnoir de na Aracos
  • GW2: Stoat.9671
Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 12:31 PM PDT

I haven't played on the test server yet... So my comments are concerns, not observations... I am worried about the destination of the resource runners being at the Warcamp. I think they need to run to deliver their resources to the friendly keep - where the defense will be, not to the Warcamp - which is where the enemy zerg will camp. What is the new system that will allow guilds to gain gold bags for their members (since we will no longet claim keeps)? How will players earn them? I am worried that this will make each zone feel like a giant capture-the-flag Scenario. I play this game for the oRvR... not the Scenarios... Lastly, this is going to be such a major change that it will require MONTHS of rebalancing and bug fixing. Does Mythic have the resources to stick with it and do this? I feel they will have to hire a lot of talent back to have enough manpower to repair everything.

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Seaimpin de na Aracos Gorm
Korzak
Seaimpin de na Aracos Gorm
Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 01:52 PM PDT

My biggest concern after reading through the notes and hearing feedback from other players is that the new Renown Rewards and equipment sets (80+) will result in many class builds being nearly unkillable, and many battles being far too long to be enjoyable. Additionally, I can't really see a good reason for the ORvR changes they're making. I hate to break it to everyone, but in a pvp game where there's no limiting factor on how many players of each faction are in a zone, zerging is a given. More people = win, that's just the way of it. This revamp just seems like an attempt to get players to move their zergs around a bit. Like Firegaurd, I can't help but feel that these new 10 dollar RvR Packs are nothing but a ploy to pocket a bit more green before WAR goes belly up.

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Ridire de na Capall
Wolffbane
Ridire de na Capall
Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 03:39 PM PDT

If you look at the opening cinematic... Huge destruction zerg attacking a keep. That was the whole point of this game. I remember reading before this game opened that the concern was small rvr. What will soloist do what will small teams do... why warbands of 24....becuase in the reality war is based on numbers not elite ganking teams. So now we have to prepare specialized teams for each zone. A team that will guard runners, a team that will intercept runners, a team to take over the keep, a team to bust up the warcamp campers.... As interesting as the concept is, they should make it a scenario...a large one, with specialised rewards...but leave the war campaign the same.

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Seaimpin de na Iomproidh
Breannan
Seaimpin de na Iomproidh
Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 05:24 PM PDT
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I feel that have just taken what the last of their loyal subscribers love about the game and flushed it down the commode just to make a buck. They are shattering the backbone of a great game. Guild participation is basically gone. Tactics.. I see friendly collision going to the wayside when they decide its not worth the time/cash to handle more lag issues. I understand the desire for new content, but I feel this is a disingenuous way to go about it - and once they have more money, when will they close up shop? I cannot see people staying long with the new system - so a few more coin and sleep well WAR. The despairity between rrs/gear in T4.. it's like not having a ram and taking on a rank 6 keep with 3 wbs inside.. its not going to happen. Monster play is a gimmic and very cheesey, at best. Or, putting it bluntly - a halfarsed way to dump in new content they know the players have wanted for years - get them excited then when reality sets in, they will get bored and leave. If they insist on this course of action - why not impliment this into the old fort areas - the way they plan to now handle zone locks - the lag will still be as big of a problem. The reasoning behind any of this is beyond me - except to possibly drive us away in search of the battles of old we will sorely miss.

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Ard Tiarna de na Iomproidh Dearg
Bentmer
Ard Tiarna de na Iomproidh Dearg
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Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 06:51 PM PDT

Well I can't comment on oRvR changes as I haven't gotten to try them out on the test server yet. But I agree with the assertion of others that breaking the zerg down into smaller squads doesn't sound in practice like a good solution. It's hard enough trying to keep a PUG together when there were basic straightforward goals. Now we'll have small groups of people going off on their own or being distracted by all these secondary points of interest on the battlefield. And I've played alot of LOTRO and I'm just not that interested in monster play. Not only that but it just doesn't seem to have any fit with WAR. It's like some minigame they invented to keep people amused for a little bit. I'm all for extra fluff but when there are so many fundamental problems with this game, why can't they concentrate on correcting those first? When I say fundamental problems, my 2 biggest concerns are as follows: 1. When are they going to improve the stability of this game? Frequent disconnects and pockets of lag still persist in a game that is 2 years old. Not only that, but I find it unacceptable that we still have long load times everytime we zone in and out of areas. I have a brand new gaming rig and I still experience the loading screen of death. How are you going to attract new players or keep old ones when they are spending time not playing but gnashing their teeth together waiting on a load screen? 2. I love how they have tried to balance the level difference in the first 3 tiers of this game. Sure a lvl 21 person will have a tough time killing a lvl 31, but at least they're in the same ballpark. In my opinion, the difference between a lvl 32 rr 32 player and a lvl 40 rr 80 player is alot more significant. Granted, this game is not about 1 vs 1, but even in group play there is a large gap between newly minted t4 people and rr80 people. Now I'm happy to see that they are making the grind to higher renown easier but that still doesn't help those lower levels initially. I think it discourages the average player if they learn that they need to grind a few months while getting beat on by higher renown players before they are of any use. I don't know if I have a perfect solution to this (maybe having a tier for 31-40) but I know that I'm not looking forward to my initial time in t4 since I'll probably be mostly leeching xp and renown in oRvR and getting demolished in scenarios. On a side note, if not for being in such a great guild, I'd be alot more depressed about going into t4 on my own. Anyways, I don't want to come off as a negative nancy or anything. I just have real concerns with the long term viability of this game.

» Edited on: 2010-10-23 18:55:25

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Ridire de na Faolchu
Bwakedy
Ridire de na Faolchu
Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 11:22 PM PDT

The new patch does not eliminate zergs, it encourages them. The runners goto warcamp so a all you have to do is sit your zerg on the enemy warcamp and collect thier resources. Then when you unlock rams go take the enemy keep. I think they should add forts back to the game or improve the current rvr rather than completly change a 2 year old system.

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Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Gorm
Caemlyss
Caomhnoir de na Fhiaigh Gorm
Replied On: 10/23/2010 at 11:38 PM PDT

I was a lot less excited about the changes once I played them. Concerns: 1. Terrain parity. This isn't such a big deal now, since how things are arranged relative to the warcamp are not that important usually, but with the new patch the glaring differences between the way warcamps are arranged really come into focus. 2. NPC resource runners are a bad idea. I would prefer to either let players run resources or remove resource running entirely. Look at reikland factory, that scenarios is set up such that even an out gunned team can win if they are smart about how they rotate the objectives they are taking. The key being that you get points (resources) simply for taking and holding objectives. That means you can take and run, something not possible under the new RvR set up. Allowing players to run the resources would be an additional avenue for strategy that I think could be fun. 3. Renown rewards: There are currently no rewards for taking objectives aside from at the end. This means that in order to reap the fruits of your labors you have to stay until the bitter end. I think this will be tough on the casual player. 4. Escalating advantage: It seems like once you get behind, things snowball until there is no catching up. I think this will lead to a lot of RvClock as the side that gets behind goes to another zone where they still have a chance. Or just zerg farm AAO at the warcamp. 5. Air Bombers: I understand that these were supposed to break up the zerg. But since all they do is fly straight to the castle then circle the walls I don't see how they can full fill this function. The enemy zerg you want to break up is not going to be hanging around their castle walls.

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Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
Zavrin
Saighdiuir de na Iomproidh
Replied On: 10/24/2010 at 08:44 AM PDT

Don't likes so far: 1) Increasing the scale of power in the game without creating different queueing for scenarios. Basically the level difference in RR really kills scenarios as a mdps (and probably most) early in t4 as a method of leveling. I don't know where the break could be so that there were enough people still doing scenarios while still keeping some semblance of balance. RR50 and below in one, rr50 and above in another...? not sure. 2) NPC runners following a set path seem to encourage WC camping =( Why not send them to some place at least somewhat logical for a group of players to defend? A keep was suggested earlier and isn't a bad idea! 3) the way skaven were implemented as a skin over your character disappoints me. I understand why they are doing it, but I would have preferred if they had found a way to make them a true new race. Take the opportunity to really add more to the game instead of just tacking something on to the side. Excited about: 1) I am excited about the fact WAR is moving away from NPCs in keeps. This I generally like. 2) More content! I just hope this isn't a last gasp... Worried: 1) As #2 says above, worried this is a last gasp out of Mythic before WAR goes belly up.

» Edited on: 2010-10-24 08:46:39

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Finsceal de na Arach Dearg
Oldroar
Finsceal de na Arach Dearg
Replied On: 10/25/2010 at 06:04 AM PDT

I have several concerns and they are.. 1. Prior 1.3.6 it was rare that i ever saw a DC or Slow loads or straight application crash. The Day 1.3.6 came on the problems started and the comment i received back was the server load had increased or a backup problem. Honestly I dont believe that! I had seen major Zergs prior to 1.3.6. NOW a new release is coming out with new content and rumors of discontent in Mythic and cutbacks of employees wow.. I am so encouraged that all will work well and any problems will be immediately corrected. At least I was able to move to another server with fewer players and still play the game and still have fun, but now new content is added where any bugs on server 1 will also be replicated on server 2. 2. In Tier4 the issue is bigger than Mythic thinks. Currently today a lvl 32 can join a zerg and can gain lvl's and renown from the success of the zerg. But with the game play in the new rvr you are developing specialized zerg's and i think it will hinder the growth of the lower players. Example - Initially when the new city started i was more confident to go into a city with a pug group and was not always worried about facing a premade high rr squad. Today I find that the only way a lower rr group can gain success in to hope for a empty instance. I am now looking for players or wb's who are higher rr to stand a chance of success. I believe the new rvr will generate the same problems. I Like the idea of transfers even with a charge. I like the idea of tools to help gain rr and influence faster. I personally Like the currrent Keep and BO take experiences. I think they could be modified to reduce the wait times on keeps and bo's and also continue to use the underdog to reduce the times further. I lead allot of WB's and sometimes have to lock my WB go get only a selected class in i.e. healers. I was surprised at how fast people would drop from the wb. This was primarily due to success or failure of playing or some people come to play for a short time. People generally do not have hours to sit and wait for something to lock .. they are looking for the quick enjoyment experience. Gaiscioch has great success in developing teams to hit the tiers in zerg's but it is with a planned window of time (typically 3 hours) on specified dates which people plan for. We are non-exclusive (all are welcome). The current RVR play is the same but I am afraid that the new RVR will develop wb's that will minize the involvement of the lower lvl/rr players because of the battle requirements. The current commuications between wb's leaders sucks. /T4 was designed for WBs to assist in that but now any guild can communicate using /T4 so now it has become general chat. I find that vent comms is the best way to talk to people but not everyone has vent or wants to join a vent channel. There is no way to identify the current wb leads and deliver vital information they might need in coordinated game play. People get on and have difficulty finding wb's because of the current ghosts that appear. To help the current City I reccommend that once a player is in a specific city instance they cannot change their instance. I find groups will hop into an instance to see who is playing and if they dont like it they will hop out, exit the game, start back up and look for a new instance until they are satisfied they can win. Infact I have seen a opponent wbs join into an instance and when they get to the end of stage 2 opponent players will leave and high rr levels will join to play only stage 3. Also the 2 hours of play is 2 long. The other day I was in 4 city instances becuase I ended up joining where the instance was already in play. I would shorten the instance join to 15-20 minutes with an hour safe mode.

» Edited on: 2010-10-25 06:11:18

» Edited on: 2010-10-25 06:14:22

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Caomhnoir de na Aracos
Stoat
Caomhnoir de na Aracos
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Replied On: 10/25/2010 at 09:39 AM PDT

I had another thought… I hope you don’t mind a double post on this topic. About the only complaint that I have about the current system, is that Altdorf and I.C. are ALWAYS under siege. It happens way too often! So, here’s my thought. Bring back the Fortresses. Now, before you groan and roll you eyes, here is how it could work: Leave the 9 main T4 zones just the way they are. They aren’t broken, so don’t change them. However, the two end-zones where the fortresses are, is where the new system could be implemented. The Defending team has to defend its fortress. The Attackers would have a “siege camp” just across the zone line (from Reikland or CW). The defenders would be at an advantage (as they should be) because they have an existing fortress, and would start out with all their defensive siege, bombers, etc. The attackers begin with a tent-city, and have to build up from there – By escorting their resources runners from everything claimed in the previous zone. They would have to build up offensive siege before assaulting the fortress. Also, this would be the only zone that the Scaven could be played… again, making their appearance a special event to look forward to. This would slow down city raids (because there is another zone to assault), and would also make the new oRvR system a “special event”, because it doesn’t happen all the time.

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Ridire de na Fhiaigh
Reclis
Ridire de na Fhiaigh
Replied On: 10/25/2010 at 09:45 AM PDT

I don't know guys... I look around at our introductions and our posts, and I'm thinking it would probably be in the best interest of all of warhammer if the Gaiscioch just bought the game, fixed it, and gave EA, the remaining Mythic skeleton crew, and whoever else botched this project a big collective DUH!!! Put me in for a double sawbuck...

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Curadh de na Ulchabhan
Bashir
Curadh de na Ulchabhan
Replied On: 10/25/2010 at 10:59 AM PDT

Stoat I like that idea. Also I don't play my 32 because I feel completely useless in RvR. I don't see how to get to 40. Reclis, I think it would be easier to start from scratch.

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Ard Tiarna de na Ulchabhan Buí
Tserash
Ard Tiarna de na Ulchabhan Buí
Replied On: 10/25/2010 at 11:28 AM PDT

I know I haven't been in since mid-Oct but here are a couple of my thoughts; issues that would have to be addressed for me to come back; 1) Level Disparity: I was difficult as a rr50 out in the lakes against a rr80 group. I cannot even imagine what it will be like rr55 vs rr80+ now. This alone is going to be a tremendous factor in increasing zerg numbers. And with level desparity is gear disparity. THERE NEEDS TO BE ANOTHER TIER! 2) Single target melee don't have a place in the new zerging. Now I know that you can argue that an aptly geared WH can sneak in backlines and take out a healer. Which is great in 1-2 wb setup. But in a zerg melee dps (especially single target) is cannon fodder, period. Sure you can argue guard/healer need to have them covered, but answer strategically who are you going to want more in your wb come rvr pack: single target WH or aoe spec'd BW? Which leads me to my next point. 3) Range / Bomb will be king. 'nuff said. 4) Server stability. With the way the time stamping, lag and stability was working out I could land 2 fireballs or multiple absolutions simultaneously . 5) Ok good things: I like the incorporation of Skaven, wish they'd be available to lower rr folks so that they could get decent rr bonus or the like. 6)I like keeps being focal points and the domination effect. My one concern is I can easily see lake battle / RvR pack becoming like WoW Alterac Valley when it first came out. Remember those? Playing for 6 hours only to log never finishing a match and not getting any credit/tokens. I also agree with Caemlys and Korzak's posts

» Edited on: 2010-10-25 11:29:46

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Fili de na Griobhta
Dargron
Fili de na Griobhta
  • GW2: Dargron.3895
Replied On: 10/25/2010 at 08:21 PM PDT
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I don't know nearly enough about the new campaign to comment on that, so I'll stick to my concerns on the new RvR Renown system and Armour/Weapon sets. Short version - I'm not a fan of vertical progression, and have grave concerns that while increasing the Renown cap to 100 and introducing two more tiers of Armour and Weapons will be of great appeal to long-time existing players who already have RR80 characters with full sovereign armour and royal weapons, it will however only serve to turn away players with relatively new Lv40 toons, and more importantly any future players. They already struggle to compete with current high end toons, and moving the end-game goalposts even further away will only inspire players to give up because the end simply seems no longer attainable. So, my concerns are thus... * Potential new players may be put off from ever considering starting the game, with such disparity between RR40-100 in Tier 4. * Existing players with low level 40 (and sub 40) characters may turn away from the game if the end-goal (RR100 and end level gear), appear so far away as to be unattainable. * Existing players with low level 40 characters may turn away from the game if they feel they cannot accomplish something in the face of RR100 characters (a problem only amplified by forcing high level and low level players together into scenarios and city instances - at least in the current RvR lakes there is room to outmanoeuvre if you are outgunned). * Players who can't stand the current Scenario grind for competetive weapons, may turn away from the game at the prospect of even more impossibly long scenario grinding added in for the next weapons. My suggestions... * In theory, I have no issues with RR100. Proposed renown system needs more options though, and more subtle ones. Branch out, not up. Nobody needs guys like Axewoof getting even better at what they do, or worse, 100 other tanks being able to use these renown points to come close to mimicking what Axewoof can do - only with the capacity for damage added in. * New Armour Sets - again, branch out, not up. Instead of making more powerful, harder to get armour sets, make each of the three sets (soveriegn, warpforged, doomflayer) equally attainable, equally powerful, but specific to one of the three paths available to each career. Using my Engineer as an example, Sovereign could specifically benefit the Rifle tree, Doomflayer specifically benefit the Grenadier tree, and Warpforged specifically benefit the Tinkerer tree - giving them a use beyond just being a more powerful copy of the last set. * New Scenario Weapons - Make them (and all their current counterparts) reasonably attainable through other means beyond grinding scenarios over and over. Long-winded personal rant (feel free to ignore)... For me Warhammer Online is my first MMO. I'd always been curious about World of Warcraft, but what always kept me away from the game was the vertical progression - I'd always bee too scared to try it out because (valid or not) I thought I'd be starting the game so far behind every other player that I'd never be useful... a feeling that only continued to grow the longer I put off starting the game and more I read about the ever-increasing levels and gear with every new expansion. Aside from the Warhammer IP, what really drew me to the this game as a new player was the ability to start off from the begining on equal footing with every other player, and the promise from Mythic that my character would always be viable - a promise they delivered with the chicken mechanic, seperated tiers, flag/unflag system, and the artificial level boost for low level players in the RvR lakes. Personally, I've been in the game since launch, and only now when my Engineer is finally getting close to the end, have I begun to concern myself with progression. I used to play for fun. I didn't care about renown - more often than not, I was volunteering for rewardless scouting duty, providing advanced intel of enemy movements so our troops had time to respond. My gear has always been below average, but adequate to the task (I was still happily using my influence weapons right up until the scenario weapons were introduced). Something changed though, and with the greater focus on the city and scenarios, and greater disparity between gear (ie, everyone starting to sport the previously rare sovereign), there became a desperate need to farm gear just to compete. For my part, I don't want to competing for the gear itself - I want to be competing on the battlefield against relatively equal opponents. I want to finally be done with chasing stats and be able to simply customise my character exactly how I want and spend the rest of my days happily in RvR - I'm kinda reminded of Oldroar and retirement, except that it's becoming clear that in-game my Engineer is never going to see retirement. He's never going to see his hard work finished and get to relax and enjoy himself at the end. He's never going to be on equal footing with his opponents, because there is always going to be better gear around the corner. With scenario's in particular, I wasn't much a fan of participating in them to start with, but grinding what must be well over a thousand scenarios by now has most certainly drained every last ounce of fun out of them (and even long after Mythic disuaded afk'ing, I still find players filling scenarios that don't even attempt to win them)... and I'm still over 300 scenarios away from earning even one pair of Royal Weapons (let alone accessing the other 3 available weapons should I make a poor choice or want variety). Personally, in my ideal version of Warhammer, there would be no need for tiers. A new toon could potentially compete with a top-end toon (much the same as RR40-80 was before scenario weapons and sovereign armour was commonplace). There would be no need for an apprentice system, level boost, or chicken system to level the field. All those maps from tier 1-3 that serve no purpose beyond levelling would be tied together into a giant overall campaign system and remain relevant no matter what your level. It's a nice dream, but the current game is probably too dependant on vertical levelling to ever be adapted/converted to such a system.

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Lorgaire de na Iomproidh
Aethilmar
Lorgaire de na Iomproidh
Replied On: 10/26/2010 at 11:26 AM PDT

My only feedback so far is I don't want to spend time hunting down NPC resource runners. If they want you to supply keeps then they need to make the players run the resources to the keep themselves. This promotes PvP and, more importantly, puts players firmly in charge of their own destinies. Also, resource runners should get extra renown rewards for successfully dropping them off. This gives people who don't feel they can compete in PvP something to do to earn renown AND it gives people who like to gank (me for example) more targets.

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Seaimpin de na Iomproidh
Breannan
Seaimpin de na Iomproidh
Replied On: 10/26/2010 at 05:28 PM PDT
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Tserash has a point - "6)I like keeps being focal points and the domination effect. My one concern is I can easily see lake battle / RvR pack becoming like WoW Alterac Valley when it first came out. Remember those? Playing for 6 hours only to log never finishing a match and not getting any credit/tokens." but also look at how many wanted old AV back and how many people stood on the bridge defending for literally 24+ hours in a single AV? I know I did. I have a couple screenies while I fought my way up the ladder for High Warlord. I was there for the honor - I had to make 350k+ a week just to maintain rank. But reward is a big consideration in the new changes.. - which begs the question - how much do kills degrade pt/renown wise after they die 50-100+ times? What decides the contribution to earn your rewards if this does take a long time (hours played) defend/accomplish? With all their claims on what is causing lag - it came with the AAO patch for the most part. I cannot believe they allowed it to go on for so long and did not investigate their patch but continued to grasp at straws and toss us ridiculous reasons for the problems. Sunday I actually didnt crash when I flew - thankfully we keptflight times to a minimum. And when does GW2 go live?

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