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The Golden List of WvW Do's and Don'ts (SBI player's notes)

Saighdiuir de na Fhiaigh
sklurb
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Posted On: 12/06/2012 at 05:43 PM
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The Golden List of WvW Do's and Don'ts

  • TaCktiX
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After many talks in various venues about the need for some basic stuff, I've decided to just post a topic and edit it as required. Things will be organized by Assault, Defense, then what objective.

General:

DO:

- Report any enemy movement and their rough numbers to team chat.
- Report own movement if moving in an organized party or squad.
- Call for reinforcement where required.
- Respond to reinforcement calls if at all possible. This is something that we are VERY weak on and need to improve.
- Have supply at all times if at all possible.
- Have at least one siege blueprint, more suggested.
- Fall back to a defensive position when outnumbered or outflanked
- Push through AoE walls and attack on the other side. Dodgeroll as required.
- Revive downed but not defeated allies when engaging the enemy.
- Stall enemy captures by getting into the circle. Any one allied person stops capture progress entirely. Do this to stall for tick, or stall for reinforcements to arrive.
- When running in a group, stick together until the fight fully breaks out. It keeps everyone safe from getting straggler-sniped, as well as presents a formidable wall of red text for our enemy to worry about.
- Take any arguments to whisper. Teamchat arguments both clutter the screen and weaken the morale of the people reading it. It's okay to disagree, it's not okay to be public about it.

DO NOT:
- Take supply from a keep or tower unless...
-- It is under heavy concerted attack and siege or repair needs to happen now.
-- It is fully upgraded and supply is within 100 of max (1,600+ of 1,700 in the case of a keep)
- Clutter team chat with random talk
- Insult other people who you disagree with
- Get wiped out attacking an objective
- Claim a location for your guild when you do not intend to stay and defend that location.
- Get stalled at a chokepoint. Any numbers advantage disappears if they can just AoE everyone at once.
- Revive defeated players when engaging the enemy. Takes way too long and removes too many people from the fight. Also makes the reviver a sitting duck.
- Call an objective lost, ever, for any reason. We'll all know when it's gone for good when it changes color. Stating it any time before then in chat typically causes people to quit trying to stop it.
- Attack a force that is clearly superior. If they've got an arrow cart and 5 people defending a supply camp and it's just you, don't attack. Report what you see, fall back to somewhere safe, and wait for reinforcements.

Assault

Dolyaks:

DO:
- Always attempt to deny the enemy dolyaks. No dolyaks making it to their structures means no upgrades.
- Use 1-3 people to snipe a dolyak.
- Never be afraid to suicide to kill the dolyak. What your repair bill costs is nothing compared to the upgrade that just got stalled.
- Force the enemy to station full groups as escort just to keep you from killing them.

DO NOT:
- Let dolyaks supply run unimpeded. This is especially true on enemy borderlands where the northern routes out of North Supply are extremely long.
- Worry about numbers defending if you can wipe out the dolyak fast enough. Again, the cost to the enemy is far higher than the cost to you.

Supply Camp:

DO:
- Consider building siege equipment like ballistas and arrow carts to counter enemy defenders.
- Attempt to take with groups of 5 or less.
- Attempt to take when less than 5 minutes are remaining before score tick.
- Pick up all available supply if we do not intend to hold onto it.
- Spam vulnerability and conditions against supervisors who have the Righteous Indignation buff. Vulnerability lowers the effectiveness of RI, and conditions are only wiped every second. With enough spam of both it's possible to take down a supervisor in only slightly less time than if they didn't have the buff on.

DO NOT:
- Attack a supply camp with less than 20 people if the Righteous Indignation buff is up on the supervisor.
- Have 20 people or more attacking a supply camp unless a tower or keep assault is about to occur.
- Take all available supply when someone intends to upgrade it. Upgrades require supply to be there already, and typically max supply at that.

Tower:

DO:
- Have siege equipment and supply. Rams are good on lightly or undefended towers. Catapults are better for a heavily defended one. Ballistas and arrow carts may be necessary for defending the catapults.
- Wipe out all enemy siege equipment that can counter you. Oil drops before rams are placed, cannons drop before people commit to the gate.
- Prioritize enemy players over any NPCs or structures (not including enemy siege in use). If all the defenders are dead, taking a tower is easy.
- Reassess the situation if defense is tougher than expected.

DO NOT:
- Melee the door. Don't range-attack it for that matter if there are defenders you can be keeping off the walls. The amount of damage done is pathetic and hitting a door tunnel visions you against any flanking enemy forces.
- Stick around when clearly outnumbered. Abandon the assault and regroup somewhere else to figure out what to do.
- Ignore attackable siege. If they have a treb up on the outer wall, hit that first. If their arrow carts and ballistas are poorly positioned, wipe them out.
- Be a sitting duck target for enemy siege. If ballistas are present, continually move around to make them hitting you much harder. If arrow carts are around, try to avoid their range.

Keep: NOTE: All tower assault Do's and Don'ts also apply

DO:
- Prevent the enemy from getting a superior position. If there is high ground, take it. If there is a kill-room of defensive siege, put up offensive siege to remove it.
- Consider using a trebuchet to breach the walls and defending the trebuchet instead of attacking the gate head-on.
- Be ready for the long haul. A defended keep takes a while to capture, and if time is of the essence, wailing at it is a waste.
- Take advantage of hard-to-reach gates and walls. Why attack the NE Gate of West Keep when you could attack the NW one? It's much harder to defend.
- Try to exploit any holes in the enemy defense. If they are too strong at gate defense, build a trebuchet and shoot from range. If they are occupied somewhere else, zerg up some siege golems and speed-cap.
- Build siege on the outer wall once breached to support an inner wall assault. At worst, the enemy's own reinforcements are cut off by the built siege. At best, it's critical to taking the inner wall. Repeat for inner to lord's room if necessary.
- Be ready for warning signals that it's time to leave to defend an already-owned objective.

DO NOT:
- Keep on attacking a keep that is getting more and more defensive forces. Any repel or wipe will immediately cause an organized counter-push into the nearest thing we own. Fall back to a defensive position and wipe out any who decide to chase before that happens.
- Expect a keep to be easy. Even the speed-caps required a lot of coordination to be possible, and the enemy was thoroughly occupied elsewhere.
- Leave a keep to go to the next objective after capturing. Any taken keep needs to be immediately defended against an attempted counter-push from whoever you took it from. Remember that it's for the long haul that a keep is taken.
- Focus on the keep at exception to anything already held. A fully-focused assault on a keep can cause half the map to be lost and the taken keep not held.
 
 

Defense:

Dolyaks:

DO:
- Realize the importance of dolyaks successfully making it to our towers and keeps. Upgrades don't happen without them.
- Know the routes that our dolyaks take.
- Be paying attention to whether a dolyak icon suddenly disappears from the map.
- Act as impromptu caravan guard if the enemy is attempting to snipe them.
- Remove any enemy snipers from the north of the map.
- Keep attacking enemies from actually reaching the dolyak. CC as required to keep them away.

DO NOT:
- Ignore our dolyaks. Ever.
- Complain about no supply in a keep or tower without making sure the dolyaks are making it.
- Think that because there is no escort reward that the job isn't important.

Supply Camps:

DO:
- Build siege equipment to defend the location. With ballistas and arrow carts (and sometimes even a catapult), 5 can hold off 15 without breaking a sweat.
- Have a dedicated defensive force of at least 5 if we intend to hold onto the supply camp.
- Be looking in all directions for approaching enemies and engaging them before they can rush the siege.
- Upgrade the supply camp as able, prioritizing Increase Supply Deliveries first.
- Resurrect the Supervisor as able. When the circle disappears all capture progress is reset, and they have to kill the Supervisor all over again. This is especially effective if they pulled the NPC to the edge of the circle.

DO NOT:
- Leave a supply camp undefended. They're too easy to take if no one is there, and they are a requirement to any serious assault by the enemy on our keeps and towers.
- Leave a supply camp underdefended. If zergs of 20+ have been seen taking supply camps, station 10 or more to counter them with siege to match.
- Think that because the enemy isn't attacking now they won't be in the future. Most supply camp takes are either tick-caps (less than 5 minutes on the clock) or deliberate setups for assaulting.
- Think that you are "missing out on the fun" at a supply camp. The enemy will come to you, guaranteed. And when they do you can relish the sweet smell of victory and badges of honor.

Towers:

DO:
- Upgrade the tower. Boiling Oil shuts down speed-rams hard, cannons shut down small party caps, reinforced walls shut down a quick catapult wall break, and so on. Ask for donations if funds are tight.
- Build up defensive siege in unhittable locations. This includes catapults facing the gate, arrow carts on the very inner edge of the wall, ballistas placed back from the edge at a height advantage.
- Have a standing defensive force of at least 5 ready to man the siege when attackers come. They can double as stallers against a concerted zerg, or breakers of a speed-cap with a small party.
- Have a scout or two handy to call out approaching attackers to the tower and their numbers.
- Call for pre-emptive defense if it's known that the enemy is heading to you. Defenders already there are far more effective than defenders who still need to get there.
- Repair any damage done to walls or gates during or after the attack.

DO NOT:
- Leave a tower undefended. Enemies can drop down 3 rams and be in your tower and captured in less than 3 minutes, even with upgrades. Towers can be so ludicrously well-defended that there is no reason not to.
- Ignore the warning signs of an impending zerg when the nearest supply camp gets captured.
- Fail to adjust siege defense to what the enemy is doing. If they're wailing on the gate with rams, break the rams. If they're using catapults, attempt to destroy them from range, or get people together to push into them. If a trebuchet is sieging, get a group together to wipe it out.
- Think that there is no hope when heavily outnumbered. Stalling out the enemy as long as possible almost assures that enough defenders arrive to wipe them out.
- Think that you are "missing out on the fun" while defending a tower. The enemy will eventually arrive, and you can laugh as they get broken into little pieces before you.
- Chase retreating enemies so far away that you don't make it back to the tower.

Keeps: NOTE: All tower defense Do's and Don'ts also apply

DO:
- Make the keep a hard target. Nothing will scare the enemy from doing anything to you than to break them into bits the second they try to arrive. Man the siege, destroy theirs, chase them away for a short distance. If they can't even approach the nearest gate without you already attacking them, you're doing it right.
- Have a standing defense force of at least 10 ready to repel or stall any attack.
- Build defensive siege in unhittable locations.
- Abuse height or terrain advantages to the maximum extent possible.
- Discourage the enemy from pushing in by creating AoE walls of death.
- Resurrect the Keep Lord as able. It resets capture progress, disappears the circle, and forces them to kill the Lord all over again. This is especially effective if they pulled the Lord to the edge of the room.

DO NOT:
- Leave a keep undefended. With enough people, a keep can be speedcapped in 3 minutes or less (we've got proof on this very forum).
- Leave a keep under-defended. This is especially true with garrison. If both teams have zergs handy, it might be necessary to put more people in the keep to defend a two-front assault.
- Prioritize defending other objectives over a keep (unless it's Stonemist). Supply camps can be recaptured quickly by a small force. Keeps cannot and earn far more points per tick.
- Let the enemy get the drop on you. See the warning signs of an attack and be ready for it.
- Assume that because the Keep Lord is dead that all is lost. Numerous keep attacks have been defeated after both gates are down and the lord is a corpse on the floor.

Anything I missed, please post up and I'll add it in.
 
-- TaCktiX
"Log on, Rock Out, Screw the Score" - SBI Motto
Last Edit: 2 months 6 days ago by TaCktiX.
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» Edited on: 2012-12-06 17:51:03

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Response:

Tiarna de na Capall Dearg
KooZ
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Replied On: 12/06/2012 at 06:38 PM PST
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Very usefull, everyone should read this, especialy if you are not always sure what to do in WvW. On a side note, even when you are alone you can do stuff, hit yaks!

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Curadh de na Faolchu Donn
ekochai
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Replied On: 12/06/2012 at 08:31 PM PST

Do build defensive siege in a keep, don't take supply from a keep. Sigh. Maybe I just don't understand WvW.

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Saighdiuir de na Fhiaigh
sklurb
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Replied On: 12/06/2012 at 09:09 PM PST
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Run supply from the nearest supply camp to build siege. The supply in the keep is needed for purchasing keep upgrades or for extremely dire situations (only as a last resort and likely situational...ie: if a gate repair is needed to split off the offensive force)

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Laoch de na Iolair Buí
Sekkerhund
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Replied On: 12/06/2012 at 10:43 PM PST
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That's a very good find, thank you for re-posting it here. I agree with KooZ. Folks, if you WvW at all, read this, then tell your friends to come read it. Read it again. Come back to it often. Print it out, tape next to your monitor. I wanted to find things wrong with it, and... lol I just can't. Its that good of a WvW Do's and Don't list.

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Seaimpin de na Ulchabhan
Dirkdaring
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Replied On: 12/07/2012 at 12:06 PM PST
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yep all good points no matter what type of battle strats you employ , one thing not mentioned and should be used already is always tab out to look at the map. i`ve been doing rvr for many years and even tho i use a sun zu type battle strat ie hit and run tactics, with diversion tactics etc i still always about every 60 sec i tab out and see what the map looks like . that way i can see if doylaks are otm or missing etc as well as any swords icons and so forth to see where support or offense is needed . as the battle is always changing and worest thing you can do is not keep intel on what is happening every min of the fight to adjust accordingly .

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Seaimpin de na Fhiaigh Buí
Crash
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Replied On: 12/07/2012 at 12:45 PM PST

Thank you for this. It was educational and my performance in WvW has drastically improved with some of the concepts about how and when to respond, stationing, positioning, etc. that were posted here. Everyone should read this guide.

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Ridire de na Faolchu
SuperHeroGeorge
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Replied On: 12/07/2012 at 01:02 PM PST
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I agree with almost all of them :) don't Attack a supply camp with less than 20 people if the Righteous Indignation buff is up on the supervisor. I will agree to it if you indeed to smash and grab. but if your trying to ninja a camp you can actually solo a camp with a buffed supervisor with proper pulling. then again the buff only last 3 minutes so if your soloing it why not just wait the 3 mins lol :)

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Ban Finsceal de na Iolair
Morigana
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Replied On: 12/07/2012 at 02:17 PM PST

SuperHero, I kind of agree.... If you start your ninja pulls before the time expires you can time it to get to the Supervisor just as time runs out or a little before. I don't really think you need 20 to take him down with the buff - although I can't disagree with the philosophy of waiting either since it does make it so much easier. A lot depends on your group makeup also - If everyone knows to use conditions on him and they have condition builds. All in all it is a wonderful guide and very useful - and for "optimal" results it is what works. I think optimal is what we should all strive for - and this lays it out. Flying by the seat of your pants just happens sometimes and that is when some of the list gets adjusted... like Sklurb stated about using Keep supplies. When the situation is dire - "Enemy Horde at the Gates" and the gates are going down - well then - use the supplies - using them is better than letting the keep fall yet the optimal plan would be to run the supplies from supply camps to build your siege equipment and have it in place before they attack. Then when have no choice - the supply is there for you. (also the workers use it for upgrades and if there are no supplies in the Keep - then no reinforced gates or walls) Great post Sklurb - nice find. "DO NOT: - Keep on attacking a keep that is getting more and more defensive forces. Any repel or wipe will immediately cause an organized counter-push into the nearest thing we own. Fall back to a defensive position and wipe out any who decide to chase before that happens." I find this one of the most important - although there are many, many important ones. Retreat does not mean you have lost the fight. It means you realize what it is you can accomplish - and taking the keep at that moment isn't a good idea. Also a good strategist will feign a retreat - if a trap has been laid to draw out the opposing forces - to draw them into a web filled with many spiders hiding around a corner. How often have we seen the forces defending a keep charge out when we start retreating... if this is known - then use it to our advantage. Fog is great at doing this.

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Curadh de na Faolchu Donn
ekochai
Curadh de na Faolchu Donn
Replied On: 12/07/2012 at 02:28 PM PST

>Run supply from the nearest supply camp to build siege. The supply in the keep is needed for purchasing keep upgrades or for extremely dire situations And if no one is purchasing upgrades? I was yelled at one time for running around building siege on a keep that drastically needed it. It hadn't been upgraded for a while, there was no one attacking it, and we owned both the supply camps feeding it. If it needs to be a "run supply from the nearest camp" kind of thing.. then more people need to be doing it. As it stands, I'm not going to run back and forth alone to build 2-3 cannons, etc. Bleh. What does it matter. I don't play WvW anymore mainly because of a majority of the people in it. So, I guess my opinion isn't of value.

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Taoiseach de na Arach Glas
Foghladha
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Replied On: 12/07/2012 at 03:26 PM PST
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You missed a very very very very important one.

HAVE FUN

We are not professional gamers, we all make mistakes, mistakes are how we learn. If you do anything out in WvW I hope it is to have fun above all else. Let's not lose the fun chasing the "Wining" rainbow.

» Edited on: 2012-12-07 15:26:30

"It's not the loot and accolades you walk away with, it's the memories and friendships that you cherish forever." - Foghladha
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Saighdiuir de na Fhiaigh
sklurb
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Replied On: 12/07/2012 at 07:03 PM PST
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I completely agree, Fog, winning is not everything. So many times I thoroughly enjoyed a well-played fight that our team has lost. I have posted this list because I think there are members who wish to get more informed on strategies and tactics. Posting this list is also something that I can personally do that can be proactive for the guild in that people who have questions or are afraid to ask during the events may use this forum to openly discuss it. Much of what I am hearing in Raidcall that commanders are asking of the group repeatedly is listed here. I think that can only help all parties present. It's also a good point of reference for members who are not in Raidcall, or who are coming into the WvW game later than some of the others.

» Edited on: 2012-12-07 19:12:58

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Ridire de na Capall Donn
Jay
Ridire de na Capall Donn
Replied On: 12/08/2012 at 12:35 PM PST

I agree with Fog mistakes are how we learn but at the same time making the same mistakes over and over is no fun. We can have fun while improving at the same time. Thanks for the list Sklurb.

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Saighdiuir de na Fhiaigh
sklurb
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Replied On: 12/09/2012 at 04:14 PM PST
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Any chance we can get this thread stickied?

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Curadh de na Sailetheach
Sprong
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Replied On: 12/17/2012 at 03:21 PM PST

1. Knock-backs: Whenever your team is a attacking a Keep Lord, or Supply Supervisor DO NOT use knock-backs. Knock downs are ok, but knock-backs are bad. The reason is that it will push the Boss out of the multiple AOE's that are stacking at that spot. There have been numerous times I initiate hundred blades then someone knocks the supervisor away and I only get one or two shots. So, DONT use KNOCK-BACKS on a boss. 2. GEAR: Try and bring gear suited for survivability. I understand that not everyone can afford the best PTV gear but the less you die, the more damage you will put out over time, and also less enemies that rally off your death. This will help make our zerg vs. zerg fights more successful. Find some high vitality or toughness gear for WvW events. 3. Buffed Supervisors: They can go down quickly with stacks of vulnerability. If you know you are going up against a buffed supervisor switch weapons or traits out for ones that apply vulnerability. With a constant 25 stacks that supervisor will melt under direct damage. Otherwise only conditional damage will take her down. With 25 stacks of vulnerability Ive been able to hundred blades the bufffed supervisor for 900+ on my warrior, and Ive heard thieves being able to backstab for 1200+. As a warrior I bring out the axe/mace with 'On My Mark': Hit on my mark, #4, #2, and then supervisor has 18 stacks of vulnerability, switch to greatsword, haste hundredblades, whirlwind. Also, remember to try and interrupt the heal which will happen at 20% health everytime. 4. Keep moving. A still target is a dead target. Mobility and crowd control is everything.

» Edited on: 2012-12-17 15:23:44

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