Logitech G13 vs the Razer Nostromo - please provide feedback

I realize there are a few threads around key bindings and MMO gaming pads, but rather than necro some of those older threads or commandeer them for my own personal questions I am starting a new thread specifically around my specific needs and questions.

First some background....

In GW1, WoW, (insert other various MMO's here) I did a lot of camera panning with the mouse and movement with the WASD keys. I would then become a stationary skill clicker with my mouse on the skill icons on my screen. With the new gaming mechanic in GW2 of moving while casting skills I knew I needed to adjust my current gaming style in relation to mouse and keyboard. I knew it would be critical to be able to dodge and evade as much as possible during fights.

After reading about the G13 and Nostromo I decided I would have difficulty adjusting to having everything moved to my left hand. So I purchased the Razor Naga in anticipation of GW2 thinking it would be a natural evolution for me because I already clicked my skills on screen with my mouse.

I've owned the Naga now for almost 5 months. I've been using it in other games including the BWE's for GW2 to get use to the number pad. I've left the training pads on the buttons the entire time (little sticky rubber pads to train you on the number system). I've come to two conclusions with this mouse in regards to myself.

1) I will never be able to take the training pads off. I have psoriasis and over the past several years it has flared up pretty bad on my hands and in particular my right. Due to the multiple flare ups and skin healing the feeling in my fingers and thumb are not very sensitive. I still (despite the training pads) can not always distinguish between the buttons.

2) I find it very uncomfortable to reach beyond the 6th button. When I hit rows 7 or 10 I find myself looking down at the mouse to assist myself visually with thumb placement and I alwys get lost returning to the top row of buttons. Now this may be because I have tiny hands. I'm not sure.

My questions...

1. Has anyone else split the skill and movement between a gaming pad and mouse? Specifically I am thinking of keeping the weapon skills on my Naga and a single healing on 6. Then moving the utility skills to the MMO pad since they may not be used as often. I would also use the joystick/dpad for movement.
2. Has anyone with smaller hands or sensitivity issues with fingers compared the G13 to the Nostromo and have a preference for comfort and ease of use? (Of course I welcome feedback from all who have used both.)
3. I notice the G13 has indentations to return hand placement. It does not appear as though Nostromo has something similar. But maybe it is not needed with fewer buttons. Has anyone had issues with training their left hand to use one over the other?
4. I saw in a few threads that a few people were having problems with the MMO gaming pads during BWE. Has this been resolved?
5. Has anyone using the Nostromo noticed a great deal of heat coming from the lighting of the unit? I ask because I had to turn off the logo glow on my Naga as it would really start to heat up over long gaming sessions.
6. Has anyone using the Nostromo had difficulty moving diagonally. I've read a few posts where people were having problems mapping it to perform this movement using the dpad.
7. Has anyone combined use of a G13 with a Razor Naga and know if they play "nice" in the sandbox together. I'm assuming this would not be an issue, but I know sometimes peripheral hardware can throw tantrums when used in conjunction with each other... lol.

Additionally, I welcome any and all suggestion of alternatives. I must admit I've now moved to the older gamer crowd and I'm just not capable of having a complex keyboard binding map anymore. When the action on the screen gets intense I might as well do a face roll on my keyboard because my brain just freezes now... lol. 

We have a Nostromo, one of the earlier versions before Razer bought it. Initially got it for Age of Conan, the king of button-mashers, in an attempt to make that game feel more action and less like Mavis Beacon typing. Infinitely customizable. Plan on spending some time getting it laid out comfortably and then getting used to it. One thing I really liked was I could keep a fairly standard key-mapping in terms of skills to letter/number keys, and do the customization by changing they keys on the Nostromo. That made it easy to play quick sessions with the regular keyboard and/or get the Nostromo for longer play. For movement, we found the dpad on the notromo to be too twitchy. If you meant to move forward, it'd interpret it as jumping forward. You meant to strafe right and it evades right. When we moved to Vista, I got frustrated with compatibility issues and the Nostromo has sat in a box in the garage ever since. I could imagine getting it out for GW2 and seeing if Win 7 likes it better. With GW2, depending on your profession you have just 11 keys plus the function keys. Even though you have lots and lots of skills, there's only those that you can access at any given time. So a condensed keypad device would fit the job. GW2 seems to have been designed for the XBox controller, tbh. Comfort: Our Nostromo did not feel hot, was actually quite comfortable for both me (extra large glove size) and Drakhor (who was pre-teens when we were using it) just with quick adjustments. It's one of those things I'd really prefer to buy from a place where I can give it a try-out (which unfortunately means an hour drive to get to a decent computer store for us), because the feel is so important and so personal.

Cetacea, I play a little differently that you might want to try. I use the Naga and Nostromo at the same time. Here is how I setup the Naga... I use my mouse for movement by holding down the right button for panning left and right then holding down the left for forward movement. Now most folks don't like this because they can't strafe, but with the Naga I just bind those. Here is the layout: 1: My push-to-talk for ventrillo 2: Ctrl Key (used for extra keys on the Nostromo and NPC locations in GW) 3: Alt Kry (also used for extra keys and Player locations in GW) 4: Strafe left 5: Strafe right 6: Shift key (used for whatever) 7: Used in GW for Show/Hide 8: Used in GW for Stow/Draw 9: Used in GW for Walk 10-12 are not used because it's also to hard for me to reach them. Here is how I setup the Nostromo... Now there are numerous ways to setup the Nostromo, but this the layout I come up with for GW based on my playstyle. I rest my thumb on the d-pad and have trained myself to jump by pushig up. My pinky has been trained for Tab-Targeting. The wheel is used for my character and inventory pages. For the profession hotbars (F1-F4) I use the Ctrl button on the Naga and 1-4 on the Nostromo (just re-bind in game). To interact with the environment "F" is easy to hit with my thumb. Num Lock for running forward and "S" for reverse. Now when moving with the mouse "Dodge" has to be bound and so I set it to "V" (still playing around with it's location). But this is just how I use these gaming devices and is in no way how you should. I just wanted to give some ideas on how they can be used together. I hope this has helped anyone... Oh I might want to add I do have a G15 Keyboard, but I only use it for chatting now...lol

» Edited on: 2012-08-12 08:21:25

I've tried the Naga, returned it. Mine actually stopped working, but I didn't get a replacement. Like you I was having trouble with both the ergonomics and establishing muscle memory. Years ago I got a Nostromo gamepad for FFXI (which had whacky hard-mapped keys that were giving me major hand pain), and got used using the gamepad keys on the left. But just like Mulch says, I found the dpad too twitchy for movement. So I taught myself to move using the numpad arrow keys with my right hand. Enter the original Logitech G15 (the one with the 18 G keys on the left). For me this thing has great ergonomics. However I'm probably an oddball, 1/1000 gamer 'cause I move/target with my right hand (usually keyboard, sometimes mouse). I've had my G15 for several years and it's wearing out so I just bought the contemporary replacement: Logitech G510.

I had the g13 about 6 months before I went to nostromo, i like the nostromo better. (G13) -ergonomically the g13 is very awkward feeling for me. I have normal size hands, and the g13 was made for people with gorilla sized hands. -the rows of indented buttons sound good, but was bad for me in practice. To reach the very bottom buttons, I'd have to contour my fingers in such a wierd way, i stopped using those rows. Similarly, the top rows of keys have a different awkward effect. Our hands want to work with something that feels like a keyboard. With the upper rows of keys being at an angle, my fingers would want to push on the keys like a keyboard which makes the indented keys too close. My muscle memory wanted to push down, but the buttons were more like pushing forward down. -for the most part, the g13 was too ergo awkward for my hands. 75$ lesson learned. (Nostromo) -I love the nostromo, but i'm meh about the thumb pad for movement without the joystick and a grip on it. Functionally it works fine for movement, but because the joystick is flat and slippery, i didnt like using it until one day I used one of my xbox thumb grip covers on the nostromo. Also, it takes some adjusting for your thumb to figure out the true forward/back/left/right. For the first hour, your thumb will want to push forward/right for awhile till your muscles figure out forward. otherwise, i use the thumbpad by itself to target. previous target (left) next target (right) closest target (back) Gap closer or misc skill (forward) -with the sensitivity of your fingers, you'll probably feel the heat with the light on. I just turned the light off on mine to get a feel for you, and there is no heat with the light switched off. -logitech and razer play nicely together. -I personally had no problems with my nostrmo/naga with the bwe's. **outside of the gamepad questions, for your psoriasis, I think you should google "autohotkey". What autohotkey does for me, is with a small script I wrote, I dont need to button mash(it works on naga/keyboard/nostromo/g13). When I hold down a thumbpad button on my naga, autohotkey polls whatever key is associated to it, 10x a second. It made a huge difference for me with no more clicking, and just holding a key down till Im done with spamming a skill. If you'd like to give it a try, I can change my script around to suit your needs, and email it to you.
<

» Edited on: 2012-08-12 13:22:44

» Edited on: 2012-08-12 13:46:55

"...to make that game feel more action and less like Mavis Beacon typing." Mulch I laughed my ass off at this comment... probably because I did so much Mavis Beacon :) and one of the great things about fewer abilities to actually have bound - it actually makes the game feel more action based than when there is 30 abilities to use which many didn't think would be the case. This is one case when less is far better. "I use my mouse for movement by holding down the right button for panning left and right then holding down the left for forward movement. Now most folks don't like this because they can't strafe..." Engwar I do the same with the mouse and alternate between keyboard and mouse for attacking and strafing - had to redo some keybinds in GW2 which allows my left had to be used for attacking/movement also - since I alternate so much between the keyboard and mouse. "However I'm probably an oddball, 1/1000 gamer 'cause I move/target with my right hand (usually keyboard, sometimes mouse)." Lakshmi I'm also an oddball :) I've tried various gaming pads and nothing ever feels right to me and I can't get the muscle memory down either so I am always looking at the gaming pad, so I keep going back to keyboard and mouse. I don't like any of them. GW2 has actually eased a lot of my pain over this by having so few skills to use at one time. It is now much easier for me - I get to watch the action on the screen much more. I know I wasn't much help in answering your OP about which is better - but in my opinion I don't like the gaming pads - none ever seem to do what I want (for me) as well as the plain old keyboard and mouse. Yet I know others swear by them. But every gamer has their own unique set of circumstances - hand size - muscle training ability - space alotment for their gaming gadgets.... I hope you get the feedback you need. It would be helpful to have 3 arms/hands though.

In GW1, and i think GW2, you can actually move forward by pressing both right and left mouse buttons at the same time. While in this mode mouse move is turn, so you can't strafe. I didn't think to try this today, but I think it worked last time I used it. I know that doesn't help much with in combat, but it's great for out of combat motion for those who hate the thumb pad on their N52s. I have an N52 as well. I have the thumb pad mapped to movement, and while it is touchy i've gotten to where i rarely dodge when i mean to run. I have the top 10 keys bound to 0-9, and the bottom 4 are F1-3 and space bar. The thumb buttons are interact (top) and shift-space (bottom) F4 is bound to wheel scroll down, and U (map bind for me) to wheel scroll up. I dont have a fancy mouse, just two extra buttons by the thumb which i use for voice chat and target nearest. Hope that helps to get an idea on the different ways you can use these things.

Hello, I run a SteelSeries Merc Stealth keyboard, and Razer Lachesis mouse. The Merc is a pretty amazing keyboard. It is very solid and well built. I have used this keyboard for over 5 years of gaming without any problems. If the one I have ever dies, I will buy another without hesitation. http://steelseries.com/products/keyboards/steelseries-merc-stealth ANTI-GHOSTING Anti-ghosting capability allows for 7 simultaneous keystrokes. SKIP THE SETUP Pre-defined profiles for more than 150 games. CHOOSE YOUR COLOR Blue, purple and red color illumination options. CUSTOMIZATION Remap every key for a custom experience with the SteelSeries Z Engine software. GAMING TERRAIN Uniquely shaped gaming key area for optimum comfort and convenience. COMFORT Rubberized movement keys for enhanced tactile feedback. CONNECT YOUR DEVICES 2 USB ports as well as audio ports available for headphone-in and microphone-out. MEDIA CONTROLS Quick access to volume, mute and other audio controls. //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// INTUATIVE KEYBOARD The SteelSeries Merc Stealth features 34 dedicated gaming terrain keys, providing gamers with the ability to adjust their macros and settings to walk, jump, crouch and move. This feature is crucial when playing fast-paced FPS games that demand a high-level of actions per minute. THE 11 DEGREE ADVANTAGE The terrain keys are tilted at an 11 degree angle of in order to provide the perfect ergonomic hand positioning while gaming. The ability to rest your palm while keeping your fingers mobile for swift movement to reach keys, keeps you comfortable and quick. CHOOSE YOUR COLOR The SteelSeries Merc Stealth features 3 different color illumination options – blue, red and purple. These colors can each be set to 4 different levels of illumination including subtle, ambient, intense and off. STEELSERIES Z-ENGINE The SteelSeries Z-Engine enables you to program every key on the Merc Stealth. No more difficult external scripting or in-game setups. Simply set all macros directly onto the keyboard via the Z-Engine software. DRAG AND DROP MACROS SteelSeries Z-Engine software provides an easy, drag-and-drop macro menu. We agree, nerds are actually cool, but we’re not all fluent in IT, so simplifying macros get you back to you game faster and with better understanding of what you just did to your keyboard. QUICK KEYS Easy access to general keys like multimedia and navigation provides gamer with fa ast and simple way to access some of the most common keys. RUBBERIZED KEYS The movement keys on the SteelSeries Merc Stealth are the most used keys and therefore have been rubberized so that users can maintain maximum control even when your hands are getting sweaty after long sessions. GET CONNECTED Two USB 2.0 ports alongside a microphone and headset jacksprovides a better connection, resulting in a faster response time from your keyboard and the connected devices to your computer. AND THE NUMBERS: • 2 port built-in USB 2.0 hub • Gold-plated microphone and headset jacks • Cable: 1,8 m / 6 ft. • 1 x USB plug • Dimensions: 536 x 201 x 27 mm / 21,1 x 7,9 x 1,1 in

I own both the G13 and the Razer Nostromo. The G13 has excellent software, however I wasn't too fond of how hardware was designed. It didn't feel very ergonomic to me. However, if you're the type that prefers WASD movement, you will probably enjoy the G13 if you set it up that as such. The Razer Nostromo software is manageable but isn't as great as the G13's software. However, it's hardware is far more ergonomic than the G13 in my opinion. Since the joystick is removable I took it out and simply use the d-pad for movement. A few folks say it feel twitchy, however, that's not the case for me at all. Overall, I prefer my Razer Nostromo over the G13. I do hope that at one point Logitech releases something much more ergonomic than their g13 as I'm not fond of Razer's quality. I used to have a Razer Naga for a mouse, but it ended up having issues early on. Ended up buying another one, and the same thing occurred fairly quickly. So I quit buying them, and I'm currently using the G700 mouse, which fully suits my needs as GW2 doesn't have many skills to manage. Many have mentioned that the G600 is a much better alternative both software and quality wise than the Razer Naga. I haven't bought one myself, so I can't really comment on it. Nostromo Setup: G700 Setup: G4 - Jump G5 - Dodge G8 - Ventrilo G9 - Stow Weapons G10 - Swap Weapons

» Edited on: 2012-08-13 06:29:18

Lots of feedback from everyone. Thank you to all! I'm going to do some research on a few of the suggestions above. I'm flying out of town for the week tomorrow morning so this should give me plenty of reading material while in the hotel late at night.

Wow Jibbs, that steel series thing looks way cool! It does look too smart for my fingers though :/ I may have to get one just to mess with it. Right now I have a nostromo/naga that im super happy with, but im always up for new toys to play with :)

I run a Razer Naga mouse and a Razer Anansi keyboard. This is okay however what I really am looking for is getting a joystick on a mouse for the thumb. This works well for me and strafe. Unfortunately these mice are not readily available.

@ Denji: It does my taxes for me....lol I switched from a traditional keyboard to this one because of hand cramping. A,S,W,D, was killing my hand. Anyways, if you or anyone else get one let me know if you have any questions about keyboard remapping, or the macro software.

hmm dunno bout the nostromo or the g13 they look nice but hmm do they really help the g13 seems to have more keys around it so i would guess it would be better but no clue .i personaly use the naga wich is the best mouse for me shooter and mmo everything works as it should dpends on ur hand type ofc aswell as for the keyboard i use a g19 does its job and im happy with it

I think what you will find here is that either will be totally sufficient for GW2. I have used both (an older nostromo) and really think that due to the smaller number of necessary binds whatever you muscle memory at will be as good as it gets.

"Has anyone combined use of a G13 with a Razor Naga and know if they play "nice" in the sandbox together. I'm assuming this would not be an issue, but I know sometimes peripheral hardware can throw tantrums when used in conjunction with each other... lol." i use a naga and a G13 and they work fine together. as for G13 vs the Nostromo. i found the G13 to be a more comfy after long periods of play. it just felt a lot more relaxed. i've been using a naga for a while and am on my second one due to the double clicking. i'm actually considering tryin the logitech G600 now.

so this is what I am talkin about! http://www.leetgion.com/product-eldruin.php

@Jar I don't actually understand how the thing works, but I think I want one regardless O_O

Somebody else might have posted about this on another thread. Anyways, linky to geek gear inc. http://steelseries.com/blog/press/steelseries-announces-guild-wars-2%C2%AE-peripherals-line-up

As an update... First.... a very big THANK YOU to everyone for the suggestions and feedback! I placed an order for the Steelseries Merc Stealth gaming keyboard. I really liked the idea of the WASD keys being very large. I believe it will allow me to easily find the keys even with the sensitivity issues in my fingers. And since my muscle memory is already use to the WASD layout... I felt the learning curve would be smaller versus the G13 or Nostromo. @Jibbs - Thank you for the suggestion! @Jar - I had no idea such an animal existed... very cool.

Grats man, it will not disappoint you. Did it arrive yet? It has some weight behind it aye? Just think if it does ever go bad, you can chop wood with it lol.

a freind of mine has the nosromo and loves it, it took him a while to get used to it but he says its worth it. if youre looking for something specifically for mmo's i consider my setup pretty good, i use a razer naga epic mouse w/ the razer anansi (older mechanical version) mmo keyboard. both the mouse and keybd have too many features for me to list off the top of my head but they make playing an mmo effortless for me, i figured i spent too long saving up and building my rig peice by peice to use my old economy mouse and keyboard, and at the very least i have to have a naga mouse when playing an mmo. I'm just too used to it now. and sorry in advance for any spelling/grammar errors, im on a smartphone atm.

I run a warmouse meta/belkin nostromo n52 setup. Sorry about the psoriasis that sucks. The warmouse is an excessively capable mouse so some of this derives from the ability of that mouse to have a stupid number of buttons and functions. I usually consider what I'll be doing with what hand and try to "load balance" button presses to get the most use. GW2 will require even spellcasters to move around a lot. This limits the power of the pad as you'll always be pressing movement keys. I would limit it's extra functions to things like opening menus like inventory, hero, friends, etc. No skills or skill swapping. I would dedicate a pinky key to ptt if that's your thing. As for the mouse this is where all the skill stuff should go. I'd program all skills to be Left-click + skill + Left-click OR Left-click + Skill. This should save you a keypress as you'd mouseover the target and press the skill and it targets and casts in the same action. Be careful with AoE though as the L/C+Skill+L/C will instant cast. This would take some getting used to to prevent misfires and some skills (like melee skills) aren't targeted. As always the mouse is a moving target and ptt would be badly located there. If I had one I'd use a ptt foot-pedal. There's not much else really. I don't think you can eat or take potions in combat so that's still better set as a click-through. The dumbed down interface in gw2 should be a real boon here. There's only ever 5 buttons you'd want to be pressing at a time and three of them are movement, one is ptt and one is click/fire/skill. Because the nostromo or pad doesn't have to be physically moved this allows you to use all five fingers to hit movement, jump, and ptt. The mouse on the other hand is limited to delicate movement so you don't screw up your targeting so I try to limit it to "fire" or "activate" type options. I found that I really didn't need any mode feature. The available buttons were more than enough for combat situations. I find, personally, if I get too much more involved after combat (a button to do every little thing) I don't use the extras anyway as it's far more intuitive and natural to use the keyboard. Hope that helps. Sorry about the text wall.

» Edited on: 2012-08-23 07:56:50

^thats actually really helpful, even for someone w/ a different setup.