Some clarification is needed...

“Family Lifestyle

...the Gaiscíoch hold honor, respect, integrity, and fellowship, over hierarchy and dictatorship

Family Progression

The more you participate in events and unite with others the faster you climb the family tree. Members who choose to isolate themselves from others will not progress”

Hmmm… now correct me if I’m wrong, but it would appear that these 2 statements are in complete contradiction with one another:

“over hierarchy and dictatorship”

“The more you participate in events and unite with others the faster you climb the family tree. Members who choose to isolate themselves from others will not progress”

So you say there is no hierarchy but evidently there is as you “climb the family tree.” That is a form of hierarchy actually. Otherwise, you would confer upon new people the same rights as everyone else - which, from what I've experienced, you don't. I've even had to censor, /ignore, certain ppl from here due to their complete and utter rudeness. But, then again, guilds just aren't what they used to be when I started playing many years ago. People usually welcomed others in and treated them as equals without the insults... But ok...

"you'll be required to accept a credo or oath to receive promotions within the family."

Sounds more like another "order..." Do this or you get no-where. Makes me feel all welcome and fuzzy already...

“Members who choose to isolate themselves from others will not progress” - over hierarchy and dictatorship.

Oh so you’re “dictating” that if someone just wants to join the guild for the social aspect and speak with others while they play, they MUST participate in events otherwise you cannot climb up the guild hierarchy, uh, I mean family tree???? Doesn’t sound like you have much of a choice then – reminds me of a dictatorship – “either do it this way or no way…”

“In addition through the progression of the ranks we try to teach members to think "we" instead of "me". We teach members that you as "self" can never be as powerful as "us" as a united front."

I like the communist touch…

So yes, if you wish to confer illumination as to the blatent contradictions here, I'm all ears :)

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 11:38:22

I think you misunderstand the context.

"over hierarchy and dictatorship."

Just because you are a higher ranked member doesn't mean your any different than a lower ranked member. there is no priority loot. no special treatment. no free handouts. Even I as the head of the house have to use the same procedures that a brand new member would to get involved. Rank != Power here. Rank = Dedication. Members who seek to accomplish higher ranks show their dedication to the family and are rewarded for their efforts.

“Members who choose to isolate themselves from others will not progress”

The family tree is based on the accumulation of family honor points. IF you don't participate in the family, you don't accumulate family honor points. Now Participation comes in many forms, there's crafting orders for members, there's logging discoveries you find around telara, there's writing guides and stories for the family to read and share, there's joining in family events (Not just the big ones. Any dungeon with 4 Gaiscioch or Tuatha is eligible), and then for leading events with more than 4 Gaiscioch or Tuatha. If you don't actively seek a role in the community then you wont advance. There is no hand holding here, or doing things for you. If your lazy and reclusive then surprisingly you wont make many friends. You kinda need to meet people to make relationships. Funny thing about that. If this was a dictatorship I would tell people what rank they would be, I would determine who rises and who does not. If I didn't like you I'd keep you at the lowest rank, yet my bestest buds in the whole world would be elders. In our system, It doesn't work that way. Your effort denotes your success. I'm sorry that you perhaps do not understand what it is that's being said, but quite honestly your hostile tone kinda makes it seem your looking for a fight. I ask that you please refrain from the aggressive tone and just ask a question like a mature human being rather than lashing out like this. Sorry but if you want someone to listen to you it's best not to smack them in the face first. Foghladha

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 11:46:46

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 11:47:20

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 11:47:41

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 11:48:22

Actually my tone was civil and not hostile - perhaps you are what we call in psychology: projecting?? I don't know. I asked simple questions highlighting all the contradictions and you accuse me of being hostile. But that's ok, you're not the first rude person I've met so far in this guild and I'm sure it won't be the last... "There is no hand holding here, or doing things for you. If your lazy and reclusive then surprisingly you wont make many friends." Why would you equate laziness and reclusiveness in the same sentence??When did I ask for a hand out or have ppl do things for me??? But ok...

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 11:51:42

If you don't like it Mavet, nobody is making you stay. I don't see how i'm rude in all this but ok. I'm sorry if I came off rude. Was not my intent.

WoW - I'm receiving rude behaviour from asking simple questions for clarification and I'm told to leave for asking them... Nice bunch of ppl... But nevermind, I realize most ppl aren't very good at articulation. I'll just chalk this one up as a matter of miscommunication...

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 11:57:27

Explain the part where I was rude? "WoW - I'm receiving rude behaviour from asking simple questions for clarification and I'm told to leave for asking them... Nice bunch of ppl..." Actually my tone was civil and not hostile - perhaps you are what we call in psychology: projecting??

Bold red text sounds less than friendly to me. (just sayin')

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 12:01:10

RED lettering = Anger - so why are you highlighting in RED? You come at the family with anger how can we answer your question?

There is nothing wrong with asking questions or clarification. The problem is the manner in which you ask. Using Bold Red Text just sees to come across as hostile.

Mavet, why are you transposing the general things I say to being about you? "Why would you equate laziness and reclusiveness in the same sentence??When did I ask for a hand out or have ppl do things for me???" I never said you were Lazy or Reclusive. I said that the Lazy and Reclusive will find a hard road here. You're finding insults where there are none my friend. Perhaps you should take a breather and come back with a clear head.

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 12:18:42

Oy! Articulate this!!! Why u b callin out me guild traditions when they been standing strong since b4 u were stainin ur britches??

I see little logic and even less purpose to your post. Is your point to complain that there are a few expectations of members? Having been in the guild since the start of Rift and having worked my way up in the hierarchy by simply playing the game, I can tell you that the ranks themselves are little more than a social aspect of the guild. As a Laoch, I am the highest rank outside of the Leader/Elder structure -- but what does that mean? I can take more artifacts out of tab 2 than a new member. Little more than that. No one has ever told me how to play. And my rank doesn't give me the right to tell anyone else how to play either. If you want to join the guild strictly for social aspects, I think that's welcome. In fact, I know it. But pointless fussiness over the structure of the guild and its founder's vision probably less so. Introductions like this likely don't lead you down a path where many of us feel all that social towards you. But, I expect you'll move on of your own accord soon -- using responses in this thread as your justification. There's a difference between clicking the accept invite button and actually accepting an invitation to join others fully. You've only done the former.

From the moment I joined this family, I absolutely fell in love with it. The people in this guild are awesome and friendly and are willing to help with what ever you need. One thing that stood out in my mind was you can play however you wanted in this game (rift) and not have other people look down on you. We're not a strict raiding guild, we're not a strict rp guild, we're not a strict anything. If you want to sit and do nothing that is your choice. You don't HAVE to do anything at all in fact. However, you're not going to get something for nothing. Gaiscioch offers a great many benefits to its players. The more you interact with other people the more they will interact with you. If you want something crafted you can ask the marketplace. BUT it's not going to be for free. You have to have participation points and keys to get the item you wish. This also goes with, if you wish to get help from people on a quest, you should talk to your guild mates and get to know them through participation. But the nice thing about this? You don't have to do anything at all. This is not a communist society. This is not a hiearchy or a dictatorship. This is.. a FAMILY. Maybe you're used to your big brothers and sisters just giving you hand me downs but unfortunately in my family I had to work for what I wanted. Also, by claiming your characters you can get into groups easier and it gives people more chances to claim their own progression as it will yours. You need to have four family members to "claim" a group. So by claiming your character you can progress and earn above keys and participation to use in the marketplace. It benefits everyone for you to work as a family and not think of this as a dictatorship. Sure we have a leader and we have elders but they're not there to tell us what to do. They are there to guide us and help us if we have questions.

The use of red and bold is used as an emphatic. I suppose I could have used pink, orange, yellow, green or any other myriad of colours as well. When one wants to get a point across, one uses red - that simple. There was no aggressiveness there - that assumption by you is projecting onto me - this is a common trait in psychology.

"Red is used as a symbol of guilt, sin, passion, and anger, often as connected with blood or sex." ^ Oehler, Gustav Friedrich and George Edward Day, Theology of the Old Testament. pg. 320

Friends share, care, and give to one another, not with a quid-pro-quo expectation but because giving is in the nature of friendship.In a simliar vein, sharing time, materials, crafting with Gaiscioch family members helps build our community. The marketplace, "advancement" all seek to foster sharing and community. Our elders don't dicate, they actually serve. Seems more like an unpaid parttime job that cuts into their gametime to me. I see it as a generous gift to this community. I cannot speak to your experience; but my experience has been overwhelmingly good. I renewed my subscription to Rift after a break, not to resume Rift so much as to renew my access to this community. If however, on reading the structure of the guild, it's not for you. No problem. There are many guilds on Faeblight to choose from. just my thoughts....

@Tashwen Well, I'm glad you had a nice beginning with them :) Been more of rude ppl in the guild in game. Ask for help with something: ignored. Ask a question for something, someone starts in on smart a s s comments expecting me to bow and kiss their --- - sorry not going to happen. I've already put those fools on ignore. But hey, I suppose you have morons in every guild... And this was my first day too lmao!! You say, "You don't HAVE to do anything at all in fact." Obviously you DO otherwise they don't let you put stuff in guild bank or take stuff out. But that's fine with me. I can mail all the shit to my alts or just sell the stuff. You say, "If you want something crafted you can ask the marketplace. BUT it's not going to be for free." I've been playing MMO's for YEARS and never heard of this ---. Guildies NEVER charge each other. I make anything and everything for my guild mates for free - why the hell would I even consider being an --- and making money off of my mates??? You say, "This is not a communist society. This is not a hiearchy or a dictatorship. This is.. a FAMILY." REALLY??? Since when do "FAMILY" members charge each other and through insults ingame??? But ok, I guess that's your experience so far :) You say, "Maybe you're used to your big brothers and sisters just giving you hand me downs but unfortunately in my family I had to work for what I wanted." You 1) don't know me and 2) that's a pretty poor assumption to be making and 3) I don't need to ask for jack ---- from anyone as I max out all my alts in the profs and tend to be self sufficient. Thanks for your input, it was appreciated :)

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 14:36:37

@Grammie "Red is used as a symbol of guilt, sin, passion, and anger, often as connected with blood or sex" Yeah..... this is a logical discussion where we use reason and empirical information, religion has no place here. Thanks though. :)

Mavet: Angel of Death in Hebrew Mortis in caelo oculi: Latin for "Death in the Eyes of Heaven" No place for religion hu? Boy my friend, you need to look up contradiction.

» Edited on: 2012-06-04 13:05:32

Okay first of all tone down on the language as this is a guild for all ages. Many guildmates have their sons and daughters in the guild. Second I am sorry that your first experiences with this guild has been not to your liking. I can understand your frustration as I'm sure we all have had unpleasant experiences in our lives. Third, this guild is about helping each other to make us all better. This guild has been a big reason why I like MMOs. Fourthly, the basis of the point system is to protect the guild from people who would just exploit our efforts to give someone what they said they needed only to have them put it up on the AH and it also rewards people who have very busy lives and can't grind for gear and choose to spend their free time on family events. Maybe our system isn't perfect, and I think none of us are saying that it is perfect, but we are a solutions oriented guild. Your OP seems to be nothing more than a frustrated commentary on how our guild is structured. None of your post had any ideas to tweek or improve upon our foundation. And we don't force charges on people. If someone was in chat or on vent who had what you needed and/or offered you something he or she would just mail the item for you. The point system in regards to ordering or filling requests is an added way for some of us to participate. I like to craft in MMOs because most other types of games I play don't have that capability. Sometimes I look at the events and see that I won't be able to participate this week so when I log in I look on here to see if there are any orders I could fill for someone. With the point system you have a choice to fill requests/workorders, participate in different kinds of family events, discover new things and post about them, or you could invite your buddies to the guild and lead a dungeon run. And lastly, no one has said that you need to participate in anything that we do. In helping others we help ourselves. So for instance if there was an end game rare item drop that you've been desperately trying to get but it never drops for you, you can then check the guild bank or request that item if you have participated in helping others. Otherwise you can keep trying to get that rare drop the good old-fashioned way and no one will look down on you for doing so.

unlocking this thread but I want everyone to know I locked Mavet out of the site so they wont be back again. I found his ip and email on several website blacklists and felt he might be trolling. He is part of an undergroup pirate wow clan who plays on a pirate-server. He's been banned from several warez and hack sites and has a lot of posts amoung the wow community that are pretty hostile in tone. Sorry that you all had to see this but it's bound to happen sooner or later. If you need to speak your mind feel free to do so. Just realize Mavet wont see it.

He has already seen me speak my mind and I have no doubt he probably put me on ignore just cuz I told him how to donate without throwing stuff in the bank that doesn't match the tabs. He also went on too much about use of money in the bank like he thought using it for soul repair was allowed. I told him not even the leader can do that, because we just don't do it. I felt he was getting pushy with how to get get and told him as politely as I could that I felt he was trying to get things rather than bothering to get to know the guild. So maybe I'm one that caused part of this rampage, but after seeing that he has been blacklisted and does a lot of naughty things, then my inclination that he was not a family fit was right.

Ok this has been a great guild. Sometimes a bad apple but with the numbers we deal with I don't know how we don't have more of them. You notice how when there's a close play in sports..both teams swear up and down that their own team's view is right even though everyone witnessed the same play? Like a close play at 1st base. Well your subconscious is behind it and you don't know it. Mavet came in on a certain side already. His or her mind was made up. Don't let it get anyone down. If he really wanted clarification he would ask Fog in private and not troll here. He or she knew what would result in this. This is the best guild I've been in and I can't believe words like that were used: dictatorship, communism, etc.
But there's also a tiny possibility that all of this never happened and that we all projected it :P


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» Edited on: 2012-06-05 08:19:15