GAISCIOCH LOOT ROLLING POLICY - Updated 5/15

Guys,
Are we really going to start fighting each other over loot? First off, I understand everyone wants to get better gear, they want to see the full spectrum of the game. Gearing up is a big part of MMO's. HOWEVER! This family is about COMMUNITY not gear. WE DO NOT SACRIFICE FRIENDSHIP OVER LOOT! Come on people its a game. Really your going to go throw years of friendship out the window over stuff we typically vendor? I think its time we step back a bit and realize whats really important.

1. When the time comes that you are no longer in Rift your gear will not matter. Every game has a shelf life and every game eventually dies.

2. Friendship and Memories last a life time. No matter where you go, what you do, what play, the relationships we make today right in Rift will last a lifetime if you don't go pissing it away over stupid 1's and 0's.

What will you do when you've killed Greenscale, have all the best gear and theres no stone left un turned? Have ANY of you thought about that? The thing is Gear in MMO's and Ranks in MMO's are the Unicorn. It's that which keeps gamers moving forward. However what the heck are you going to do with a Unicorn. It still poops, and you'll have holes in your upholstery from that damn horn. Chasing Unicorns is how a MMO keeps their player base hooked on their game. Getting the Unicorn will result in 1 of 2 things.

1. You will quit the game.

2. You will play an alt

Either way you will no longer USE THAT GEAR that you've been stressing over the whole time. Common sense here guys. Lets take a step back and enjoy this game for what its worth. Enjoy our time together. Rush through life and all you get is death. Theres nothing at the end of the rainbow, the journey getting to the end of the rainbow is the best part.


On to loot rolling. I have dropped the devs a note to please please please disable need unless a person can use the item. This is a game flaw and hopefully in 1.3 I can beg that little gem into the patch. UNTIL then we need to be patient and stop stressing over things. I assure you, you will get to the end game with or without that pure sourcestone. We are actively working on getting a SECOND full raid group scheduled for Greenscale. How many guilds you know can event think of doing that? Enjoy it guys.

Now Loot Rolling Conventions for our family.

"FAMILY RULES" (WHEN IN A GAISCIOCH PREMADE)
When a leader says that the loot rolling is on "FAMILY RULES" then you will only roll NEED on items you can use RIGHT NOW on your main role. Do not roll need if your level 20 for a purple level 50 item. You don't even know if your going to play that character to 50 yet and the item is better fit for someone that will help protect you on your journey to 50.

NEXT Roll Greed if its an item that you can use later on, or on an alt. Do not EVER role NEED or GREED on an item to break it apart in a "FAMILY RULES" group. Items should be used for the family to better equip themselves.

Items such as Potions, Crafting Items, Puresource, and other items EVERYONE can use. Roll NEED if you can use it "right now". There will be plenty of opportunity to get the item again.

Corrupted Souls & Malformed Souls should be collected by the group leaders to help run more events for the community.

"PUG RULES" (FOR OUR PUBLIC EVENTS)
When we are running public events, we CAN NOT leave it to chance. The whole only roll greed thing for the crafting items and souls is really really really freaking silly in a public group. It's like giving someone that hates you viciously a knife and turning your back. You gonna get hurt, and quite honestly, I don't have any sympathy for someone that sets themselves up for failure. FACT IS: Public groups are not premades. I don't care who you think you are there is no way to ever ever ever ever get a PuG to do what you ask. I have lead PuG's for 10 years now in very large ways and I have very rarely ever had a full group that listened to the words I say. DO NOT LEAVE YOUR LOOT TO CHANCE in a PuG. Someone will ALWAYS roll need when they shouldn't and screw 90% of the raid group out of loot. This is the most common email I receive on a weekly basis. Crying over loot when you did nothing to defend yourself from the mindless pug is silly.

ROLL NEED on an item when you NEED the item and WILL use it in the next 5 levels on the character your currently playing.

ROLL GREED on an item when you WANT the item for an Alt, or to break down or are more than 5 levels away on the character your playing.

ROLL NEED on Potions, Crafting Items, Sourcestones, and General Goods.

ROLL PASS on Corrupted Souls, Malformed Souls so that the Raid Leader can use them to keep opening Raid Rifts & Expert Rifts for our public events.

It's that simple guys. Don't leave it to chance.

OUTSIDE THE FAMILY - PUBLIC RULES
When you play outside the family you will have to follow a different set of rules. As a general practice you should ALWAYS ask what the group leaders loot rules are.

Traditionally there is a "Unspoken Rule" that says that all general goods (Souls, Sourcestones, Crafting Items, Potions, Etc.) should be "GREEDED".

Gear you NEED for your current character Roll NEED.

If you NEED this gear for an ALT or to break down Roll GREED.


In General:
I really really really want you all to take a moment and step away from the game. Think about why your playing. Why did you come to the Gaiscioch in the first place? Why did most of you leave Warhammer to join us here?

You did it because we are a Family, and our FRIENDSHIP was greater than the Gear or status we had. Don't lose sight of that. I love you guys like family and seeing you all fight over planar dust is killing me here. I mean REALLY! It's not even real planar dust! Chilax and enjoy the friendships that are forming because of us playing together. The gear and loot should be secondary. If you don't feel that way I encourage you to find a hard-core raiding guild. Don't turn my FAMILY into a hard-core raiding guild. Thats not who we are, thats not what we will become. Sorry to burst that bubble. We will take down Greenscale, and Asha, but we will do it as a family. We don't need ePeens getting in the way.

Foghladha

» Edited on: 2011-05-15 10:35:21

» Edited on: 2011-05-15 12:04:53

Thank you for the clarification. I totally agree. Oldroar

Thank You Ben, I agree 100%

I am very happy to see a policy that is clearly stated for everyone to follow. It was very uncomfortable seeing 'punishment' rolls being done on people to 'take' something from them due their loot rolling personal choices being made and this eliminates that issue entirely. I appreciate having something that is universal for setting the standard for Family outings, makes clicking the Need/Greed buttons faster so I can go back to dying! Lots! :) I had a great time outside of this issue last night and look forward to many more Family Events!!

A clear policy is fair all-around!

100% behind you Ben. Unicorns poopD? .. what's next, the tooth fairy is really a guy named Shinobii !

In a tutu Booie in a tutu. Don't let your kids open their eyes. <--- Scared for life!

I think Padh gobbled up the Tooth Fairy last night :P

I am publicly apologizing to Gabale for the way I handled the soul roll last night. So, I'm sorry. I made a mistake and it should have been handled differently. I also apologize to the raid and everyone who was in vent if I upset anyone. I will be sending the soul to him. Sometimes raid leaders have bad nights, and screw up. We are just people too. I'll try to do better next time.

I agree fully with these loot rules and the fact that loot just does not matter at all when it comes to friendship. Even if you're grouping with people you are only acquaintances with, they could be your best friend down the road.

Fairy its not about the soul, you can keep it or donate it to the family. I know all to well the headaches of leading I have lead many trinity events in Warhammer and in Rift. Anyway thank you for the apology.

can the raid leaders set the loot to epic and if an epic drops we can figure it out then? No matter what rules are in place there's going to be someone taking advantage of it. Eliminating someone on rolling need on an epic would stop that. Ive never been a leader in this game but in other mmo's just setting the loot threshold to epic would solve this problem.

Well said

I agree with the rules and philosophy - the main thing is that we have a rule and something clear cut to point to and say "this is how we do things", it makes leadership and being a member of a group easier because now loot is a no-brainer. Regardless of how we would like to think other people will behave, we are not them, and have no idea what they may decide to do. Setting an example is a cool thing to do but I guess don't then complain when a pug screws you over knowing that there is a very high (unfortunate) chance of that happening. I have seen wow hardcore raid guilds split up because of loot and wreck all their hard work and good times, which is one reason I no longer choose to participate in that style of gaming. Unicorns get eaten by sheep where I come from so I have given up on getting one!

» Edited on: 2011-05-13 20:03:06

...still giggling over Unicorn poo...in my mind...it glitters! heeheehee

Arguing about gear is not worth it, agreed. I think these are good rules and I will follow them, but there is one point I'd like discuss further. Everyone should be aware of the unwritten general rules on the server, and they are to roll greed on crafting materials, souls, potions, souls, containers and the like. Doing otherwise will leave a very bad impression. For this reason I would sugget not rolling need on these item, unless it is agreed upon (or other people already needed on those items). I've seen full random pug raids rolling greed on a minor catalyst (purple crafting item), and I'd hate to see Gaiscioch being the people who needed when everyone else greeded. Might be wise to need in warfronts, but most of the dungeon groups and raids (pugs, friends, guild) I've joined only greed on this stuff (though I haven't done much radom pugging with the LFG tool, maybe you need to be more catious there). Needing when everyone else greeds will not get you on the friends list and you knew that according to the patch notes someone you put on ignore will not be in your LFG dungeon pug? Anyway, it's always a good idea to adress loot rules at the start when you are with new people to avoid misunderstandings (make a friendly macro, will save you some time)and pay attention to what others do and then follow preferably the good example, not the bad.

Good post and policy. :) And very glad you suggested "Need on Use" to Trion. I've found it to be a great anxiety-reducing loot rule in other games.

I could be wrong (it happened at least once ;-) ), but I really don't see where "need on use" would do much for the situation. Warriors could still "need" any armor, clerics anything but plate... and mages have to put up with everyone at least being able to swim around in our loot pool without us being able to swim in theirs. Point being, the vast majority of players could still equip most armor, and therefore "need" it whether they really do or not. So the greedy social misfits all roll warriors; but they're still peeing in your loot pool. You'd have to accompany it with also only allowing each archetype to equip their "primary" armor type for it to do much good, and I don't see that happening. (Witness the player outcry over having it that way in the appearance tab, and imagine that magnified 10-fold; then you'll understand why I doubt Trion will make such a change.) That said, I haven't noticed loot whoring to be a particular problem in Rift... especially in the family. But maybe that's just because I have trouble getting too worked up over a few pixels in a game: if something dropped once, it'll drop again. Maybe I'll get it next time. And if I don't? Well, then maybe I should realize people don't always get everything they want.

@Tetharel: The way that Trion has the Wardrobe setup which will likely be the system the loot rolling need on use system works, Warriors can not equip anything except plate in a wardrobe slot. When they get the need on use system in place you will only be able to "Need" the item if your character meets all the requirements to use them. Level & Class. My contacts says that their well aware of the situation and they hope to be able to share new stuff soon that will ease our minds. I'm betting 1.3 if not sooner will address this situation. Also in conversation they dropped a little tidbit that there is something very very very big that their launching at 6 months that will greatly interest the Gaiscioch. *wink wink* They can't wait to let us in on the little secret but can't say anything till its in stone and ready to go live. Trions policy has always been to never promise something and then fall back on it. Integrity is what Trion is all about. So were just going to wait and find out. I suspect thats going to be some kind of major PvP patch ;) new region maybe? We can hope.

Outside of guild PUGs, can people please adopt a wait and see attitude to crafting / souls / etc that everyone could use equally? The general tendency of this realm is to greed on general goods like sourcestone. I've been in 20 man random raids and never seen Needs. Warfronts are a different kettle of fish as there always seem to be someone that rolls Need. There are people on this server who have trouble getting into PUGs for T1s, etc because they've rolled Need on souls. If enough people from the guild PUG and Need on things like souls, some others of us will have trouble getting in groups simply because of our guild tag. Just wait a bit and see how the intent of the group goes if you are worried. I've rarely seen anyone chime in with a last minute Need on an item (and it never goes down well) so just wait and see what the intent of the individuals in the group is. You can always get an item you lose later, the same can't be said of the reputation you lose.

Ill add an addendum when I get home for general server loot rules. However I firmly feel whatever moron came up with the greed on general goods liked to complain... explain to me if everyone rolls greed vs everyone rolls. Need what's the difference? The only difference is with greed you can be ninjaed and your hard earned work flushed. This loot rolling "tradition" is really really silly especially in a game where it doesn't have a need on use system. As long as were all greeding there will be hostility and divides in our community.

its mine, mine its my precious(snaps back to reality) i agree with you all but it is sad to have to put this in words

I agree with Clan, I never thought I would see the day that our family would be bickering about loot. What happen to "Blades out! Not in!"? People being greedy and not being considerate of others goes against what our family is all about!

» Edited on: 2011-05-15 11:01:08

Opened a FAEBLIGHT wide discussion

Okay Fog, so based on the official forums post, we are amending what you stated last night, that now you do not have to be 50 to roll on level 50 items, but you have to be level 45+? Also, in the top original post here you need to change the text about rolling need on souls to pass on souls so the raid leader can roll need. I will be amending my macros. By the way I added a new macro that at the end states: "These are Foghladha's rules, please follow them, thank you." That seemed to do the trick with quelling any debate about it during the event. The only tells I received concerning loot were about non-level 50s rolling on level 50 blue and purple loot, which I then asked you about in vent and you stated only level 50s should roll on it going forward. So I just need to know if you decided to make it 45+? All in all everyone cooperated, even the pug members, on loot rolls, and I told my raid thank you several times for cooperating, to try to foster acceptance of the rules.

» Edited on: 2011-05-15 11:50:32

Yes I'm still working on updating everything to reflect the change. I'm trying to clarify things so there are less questions.

Fog, here is what my new macro looks like, feel free to copy/paste it: LOOT RULES: NEED: on gear that your current character build can use RIGHT NOW (within 5 levels). Do not roll Need for things for an alt please. GREED: on gear that you can use on an alt or on a secondary build or is more than 5 levels away. Corrupted Souls, Malformed Souls: Please roll pass so that the Raid leader can collect all of these and open more Rifts for you at the next event. Sourcestones, and other Player Usables like potions: ROLL NEED IF YOU NEED IT and it is within 5 levels of you. Level 50 Items are to be rolled NEED by level 45+ only. These are Foghladha's rules (for Gaiscioch public events only), please follow them, thank you.

The Rift Raid loot system worked well - basically it was ms over os, str/end to warriors, dex gear to rogues, high wis gear to clerics. focus/int gear to mages although only warrior and rogue loot or cleric tanking gear dropped ! We discussed a few things beforehand as to people being ok with the stat choices and went from there with no drama over loot. Yay! Thanks all for your reasonable attitude to loot on the raid rifts :)

» Edited on: 2011-05-15 13:24:41

Okay Fog I amended my macros a bit more, thanks for the clarification. I think these are good and fair rules and hope we can stick with them going forward. Thank you for posting guidelines too for non-Gaiscioch events. I am sure that alleviates a lot of people's concerns.

HMMM For such a popular UNSPOKEN rule for all MMO's there doesn't seem to be any interest on the official forums about this. Which leads me to believe that this whole thing is a bunch of nonsense.

Could be because the same topic had just recently been hashed out on the Faeblight boards here. I imagine most people had already had their say in that thread, if they were interested in doing so. Edit: I always want to put the BBCode URI in quotes, and it never likes that. :-(

» Edited on: 2011-05-17 08:45:44

There are constructive posts that help educate people on the topic or suggest solutions to a problem and then there are unconstructive posts that accomplish very little. Some of the previous posts are more of the latter than the former I'm afraid. I think we can all agree that educating our members on what the prevailing loot policies in PUG's will be is a good thing. The more you know, the more informed your decisions can be. I know if I were new to this game, that I'd like to know. Here is an example of an unconstructive post: I have never seen a black hole before so therefore I postulate that they are indeed a made up fiction from Star Trek, Stephen Hawking, and that funny haired asian guy who is always on History Channel. Discuss please. ;0

» Edited on: 2011-05-17 12:14:44

I agree with the policy and it's been the way I've played for years - if anyone sees me roll "need" on anything I can't use at that moment (and yes if the item lvl is 45 and I am at 44 7/8 I will probably roll need as "right now" is less than 1 hour away) then it was a total accident. Also, it has to be an upgrade - not just something I "could" use. With the family marketplace - there is nothing I really need that I can't get from the family unless it is a rare item, Since I don't craft - I try to remember to pass on all that crafting stuff - since I will never need it. Anyway - as others have stated - good to have it written down. Thanks.

read and will comply

Acknowledged .i do see one or two people rolling as need for items for the roles they are not in which is not a good thing to do.While the proper thing is to role greed or ask before rolling need in such cases.I hope every one of our guildy.

If all else fails and it gets too bad just flip the group to master looter and do it the old fashion way. For the most part these loot rules should protect you from heartache when working with public groups.

I haven't paid much attn to the guild forums. First visit, actually. Such a nicely written post, Fog. You have an enlightened perspective on MMOs and we're all fortunate to be able to benefit from the great energy you put into Gaiscioch. Thank you! Hornell

I just want to be get a bit of clarification - if for example - Let's say you tank mostly in t1's and t2's - but were asked by the raid leader in a family event raid rift to take a support role for the sake of the group. Are you then not allowed to need roll on tank gear for your class?

Mirabella, you can roll need for your calling, not your role. So cleric can roll on whatever a cleric can use, a rogue rolls on rogue gear, etc...

new to the guild. trying to figure out the policy in WFs (which I do a fair bit of). i usually roll "need" on all items unless they're blues or purples (unless, of course, i do need them). that seems to be the way most WFs go as far as looting goes. that being said, i'll pass on loot unless i need on an upgrade in a WF, if that's the Family's policy. cheers, Raini

This policy only applys to our family events. In Raiding groups each leader is in charge of their own loot rules, but must make them known before they begin. In WF it's every man for themselves a lot of times.

"PUG RULES" (FOR OUR PUBLIC EVENTS) When we are running public events, we CAN NOT leave it to chance. The whole only roll greed thing for the crafting items and souls is really really really freaking silly in a public group...DO NOT LEAVE YOUR LOOT TO CHANCE in a PuG. ROLL PASS on Corrupted Souls, Malformed Souls so that the Raid Leader can use them to keep opening Raid Rifts & Expert Rifts for our public events. It's that simple guys. Don't leave it to chance.

100 % agree mate :-)

bump