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Event scaling in open world PVE

By:

Laoch de na Ulchabhan Dearg

Lakshmi
Laoch de na Ulchabhan Dearg
GW2: Lakshmi.5941 ESO: @Lahshmi

Posted On: 06/07/2015 at 08:10 AM

Anyone who's done open world events like Vinewrath has heard a lot of conflicting claims about how events scale and -- in particular -- the scaling effect of AFKers and folks lying dead at a boss.  It's also been a debate on Reddit for the past month or so. [1]  Now a guy on reddit has tested and provided some solid video evidence for how it actually behaves. [2] [3]  

BTW, event scaling can take a few forms:  Total boss health, # and level of adds, the skills the boss uses, etc.   I saw one video where EACH AND EVERY dead person waypointing away from one of the Vinewrath bosses dropped the boss' max health about 2%!   Imagine how much easier it is to win when 20 dead people WP away!

Here's a summary of what we know now.   First, UPSCALING:

  • Events scale up when you are in range of them.   The range seems to be ~1800 -- about when you see the event pop up in your quest tracker.
  • Everyone in range scales the event.  Dead, AFK, just passing through -- it doesn't matter.  If you are in range of the event, you are scaling it up.
  • New events upscale immediately.   If you happen to be in range when a new event spawns, you are scaling it up.  Dead, AFK, just passing through -- again, it doesn't matter.
  • Ranger pets don't upscale events.   Presumably this applies to necro pets too. It seems just players count.
  • The first few folks don't scale the event.   It appears to vary by event, but it's a small number (perhaps one party of five for most events).  So, if you are doing an event with 5 or fewer people, it doesn't downscale the event when you waypoint.

Now, DOWNSCALING:

  • Downscaling happens immediately when players move away.   Run out of range, or waypoint away.
  • Moving away downscales, even if you've tagged the boss.   And if you've tagged the boss, you still get credit for the event even after you move away.   

TL;DR

  • If you are defeated, you'll help the event succeed by waypointing.  This is the bottom line.  You can save yourself a couple silver by laying there dead, but you risk getting nothing because you are upscaling the event for the folks still alive.   You might also experience a negative reaction from those still alive trying to beat the event.
  • If you are AFK or just passing through, you'll help the event succeed by moving out of range.

NOTES:

  • These results match my own experience in the Silverwastes and elsewhere in open world PVE.  Boss events definitely get much easier when dead folks waypoint.  (And fail far more frequently when they don't.)
  • The data in the videos linked above were collected using a DPS meter mod that's in violation of the TOS, so we can't verify them independently without risking our accounts.  :(
  • These data seem to contradict what ArenaNet told us about downscaling a couple years ago.  [4]

 My GW2 articles:  Adventures in the Silverwastes | Stretching Your Laurels | Guide to HoT Masteries | GW2 API Keys, Privacy and You

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Member Response:

By:

Laoch de na Fhiaigh Liath

LeslieoftheStars
Laoch de na Fhiaigh Liath
GW2: Leslie of the Stars.1706

Replied On: 06/07/2015 at 01:04 PM

Excellent explanation Lakshmi! I farmed Silverwastes for 3 months and it was very frustrating when I got on a map with afkr's and people that would not re-spawn when they died. There were many times we would have to yell in map chat, "don't res so and so because they haven't been here for 15 minutes!", etc. As you pointed out, the cost of waypointing is pretty cheap compared to the success of the event and what you get back from it. As for AFK, I am fine with someone needing a 5 minute break or so, however, if it's going to be 30 minutes or longer - they should leave the area so others can achieve their success in the event.

A great article and detailed, thanks for your hard work at putting this all together for us!

~Leslie

By:

Laoch de na Ulchabhan Dearg

Lakshmi
Laoch de na Ulchabhan Dearg
GW2: Lakshmi.5941 ESO: @Lahshmi

Replied On: 06/07/2015 at 02:52 PM

The 15 minutes thing appears to be wrong too.  In one of the tests I linked above 2 people were still upscaling the event after they'd been dead for MORE than 15 minutes.  

But since dead / afk have exactly the same effect on upscaling, the real problem with ressing (from fully dead, not downed) is that you are pulling someone's DPS out of the fight for a minute to rez.    So that's TWO people scaling the fight, but not contributing.

For myself I think the best rule is: never res during an event you might lose.  Res AFTER the event is won. 



» Edited on: 2015-06-07 14:58:28

 My GW2 articles:  Adventures in the Silverwastes | Stretching Your Laurels | Guide to HoT Masteries | GW2 API Keys, Privacy and You

By:

Ridire de na Capall

Valin
Ridire de na Capall
GW2: Valin.4527 ESO: @Jvari

Replied On: 06/07/2015 at 03:06 PM

It is great to have empirical evidence - thank you so much Lakshmi.

ESO - Thorn family

GW2 - A lot of Valin's 

By:

Bandraoi de na Aracos Corcra

Soren
Bandraoi de na Aracos Corcra
GW2: Soren.9316 ESO: @Soren24

Replied On: 06/07/2015 at 05:28 PM

This is generally why at events like Teq and Wurm we ask people not to rez the dead. Not so much because of event scaling but because it takes dps away from the fight. If 1 peson stops to pick up a dead person that takes approx 30s we loose there dps for that time. If they die we now have 2 dead people to rez and if 1 person per dead guy rezs now we have 4 people effectively unable to do dps. If they go down we have 4 dead and 4 rezing so 8 out of the fight. It really adds up after a bit. Downed players are different since it takes only a few seconds to pick them up.

By:

Banlaoch de na Aracos Dearg

Kitty
Banlaoch de na Aracos Dearg
GW2: Kitty.6219 ESO: @KittyMauge

Replied On: 06/08/2015 at 07:13 AM

Can we sticky this thread? This is very useful! :D

By:

Ban Finsceal de na Ulchabhan

Morigana
Ban Finsceal de na Ulchabhan
GW2: imagetaker.6807 ESO: @Morigana99

Replied On: 06/09/2015 at 02:48 PM

It is very useful so a little glue was applied.

I learned a long time ago that if you die at the beginning, middle or even near the end of any fight it is better to waypoint than lie there doing nothing - or just "hoping" that someone will rez you - exactly for the reasons stated... you are just a heap of flesh laying on the ground doing nothing and if someone does attempt to rez you, you take them away from what they need to be doing.   And more likely than not, you might get them killed also.

This is also true in WvW for the most part.  I know that it can be a really long run back, but that is a better use of your time than just laying there.   There are times - like providing scouting reports - and everyone else is running back that you might lay there and report enemy troop movements.  But once everyone else is back - do the team a favor and waypoint yourself.

"I walk in dreams and speak with ancient spirits. I see the good and evil as well as the storm of turmoil that the universe creates.  This is my fate, what I do with this knowledge - that is my destiny." Morigana Crone of Dreams

"I reach into souls and draw out their spirits... they still dance with me on the fields of battle. Don't let my ghosts haunt you." Morigana Ghostdancer

By:

Curadh de na Iomproidh Buí

Susulemon
Curadh de na Iomproidh Buí

Replied On: 06/10/2015 at 04:25 AM

Too many people rather lay dead on the ground whether they are afk or not, as a silent protest to not having been resurrected in time - Observations of a Tyria Nomad 

-------------------------------

Ranger: The Best Pie

Engineer: Agent Oranges / Berberu

Warrior: David Sushi

Thief: Stolen Sushi

 

 

By:

Curadh de na Iomproidh

Ruwund
Curadh de na Iomproidh
GW2: Ruwund.3547

Replied On: 06/10/2015 at 06:45 AM

And don't worry about not getting loot or credit for the boss kill.  Once you tagged the boss, like Lakshmi stated, you get credit and loot even when you are out of range.  So just release and run back and all will be well :)

Elder Scrolls: Online